14 Comments

1. Debbie
   March 27, 2009 @ 4:16 pm

   I’m really sorry you found one of “those” sites. They are so far off the mark… I believe in God and Hell, but test is not what it’s all about. This type of “religion” is why so many turn away. I’ve heard it said that the main reason someone turns away from God is because of church members. I’m afraid that is very true.

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2. Dave Armstrong
   March 27, 2009 @ 4:55 pm

   Yeah, some people miss the point.

   On the the other hand, you said “the easily offended by religious ranting” shouldn’t read on.

   But it seems that you are one of those, and by reading that site… you did read on.

   It is exactly that — a rant. So why read it?

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3. Greyhawk68
   March 27, 2009 @ 5:02 pm

   @1 Thanks for posting Debbie. That’s the thing, I have no problem with folks such as yourself, it’s the radicals that tick me off.

   @2 Dave, I only post that to warn my religious readers that what I wrote might piss em off. I do have very good friends that are very religious and I wanted to spare them, that’s all.

   And yes, this is my personal rant space, so I ranted. Sarcasm and humor like that doesn’t grow on trees ya know

   And why read a rant? To vent along with the author, or have the same type of reaction, or to simply be amused. I read rants by people writing editorials all the time. And I enjoy NEW RULES by Bill Maher every week on his show, and that’s one big rant… so that’s why I guess.

   -Grey

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4. Rob McDonagh
   March 27, 2009 @ 5:31 pm

   OMFG!

   Well, according to them, you and I can hang out together in Hell. Hope Satan’s got HDTiVo and NFL Sunday Ticket…

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5. Steve McDonagh
   March 27, 2009 @ 7:18 pm

   Yo Grey!

   Spot on Bro! But you were a wee bit too polite LOL then I am prob the wrong yardstick to measure rants on.

   You me an Rob can get together for a few brewski’s between lava dipping and pitchforkds up the jacksie in the Atheists, pagans , heathens and catholics enclosure.

   OOO do you like Lobster cos if you do you are prob on G’s hit list ? Cos Shellfish and crustaceans in general are in the same list of Abomonations as “man love” … I must be eating Lobster all wrong

   

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6. john head
   March 27, 2009 @ 8:02 pm

   that site makes me laugh – and I am a catholic with a strong connection to my faith. a few comments

   1. sites like this scream of fundelmentalism and evangelicals, and have to do with RELIGION

   2. Faith is about belief where as Religion is about the structure people put around faith

   3. In most cases I believe you either have Faith or do not – you rarely lose it unless is a major event in your life. The connection to a higher power is natural – or has been for thousands of years – no matter what faith or name is used. We are in a swing of the pendulum where people are questing their faith vs. running to religion. That usually happens in the late / early years of a century. I expect when we all are dying off of old age, we will be in a resurgence of religion and faith. But with modern technology, who the heck knows.

   4. In many cases, people fall away from religion because of other people involved or stupid crap people do. Examples include the Inquistion, Al-Quedia, and so much more.

   5. Steve McD – John was not too polite – he was respecting the fact that more people on the planet have faith in a higher power that don’t. He might think people and sites like this are proof that stupidity can spawn anywhere, but John is also a major defender of the Constitution of the US – which protects his right to be atheist as well as this site’s right to be … (not sure what to call it – hardcore evangelicalism?). John may be a jerk some times, but he does have major class

   Nicely written John – all the crazies need to be taken to task, no matter the topic 😛

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7. roland.reddekop
   March 27, 2009 @ 9:57 pm

   Hey Grey,
   I am a theist, though not the “bumper sticker” kind since I figure its pretty apparent from how I live/work/speak/write that I don’t put my values in this life alone. God/Jesus comes up in conversation pretty naturally so I don’t feel any particular need to rely on slogans or signs on my person or property. However, I’m not opposed to advertising for those who want to take advantage of the free speech rights we enjoy in this country. In your case you obviously had enough interest tweaked to follow the URL on the sign. So I guess the advert accomplished its initial goal to bring more information for you to consider and subsequently reject.
   What I do find curious is your strong and over the top reaction, and the piling on that follows. Sure its fun to mock (Psalm 1). Christians could (and many probably do) sit around and mock atheists’ beliefs (or lack thereof). I am curious if you’ve even considered that maybe, just maybe, the persons who put that sign on their window, and took their free time and mostly likely personal money to put up a website and quote Scripture were doing it out of genuine concern for others. The worldview of a Christian after all is that humanity all stands on a precipice of eternity and its kind of loving to tell people that and how to deal with the inevitable and permanent departure (death and taxes man). In this vein, you may find it informative to hear fellow atheist Penn Jillete speak about how he reacted to a much more overt attempt at evangelism than a passive bumper sticker >>
   { Link }

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8. Shawn
   March 28, 2009 @ 12:07 am

   I am going to try and not start a horrible, terrible discussion on your blog John.

   roland.reddekop: I have a note on your comment.
   1) No Christian that I have ever known has sat around and <i>laughed</i> () at atheists for their beliefs. They generally sit around and feel sorry or concerned for them. Lack of faith and the resulting promise of damnation is not a laughing matter to Christians when it is so simple for them to gain the eternal reward.

   John:
   Man, both Debbie & john head said it. Tests like these are one of the things which turns people off on religion (me included.) That and the stupid things that people do in the name of religion.
   In my freshman year of college I was asked to take a test by a particular religious group on campus which resulted in them telling the good, catholic, altar boy that I was that I was not living my life properly and they wanted a demonstration or promise of my willingness to change AT THAT MOMENT!

   After politely disagreeing & walking away, I proceeded to fume in my room for 45 minutes at the <b>gall</b> () that these jerks had to judge me on their horrible test.
   This was the beginning of the cracks in my faith.
   The damn burst at the moment when my home-town priest had a sermon in which faith was defined… to which I decided I didn’t have what he was talking about.
   My mother & I have talked repeatedly on this and she still lives in hope that I will find my way back to the church.

   This is why I wear the tag Agnostic.
   I keep talking to people, trying to find my way in this mess, but their answers are also horrible.
   I have had several people tell me that their faith is based on Pascal’s Wager. (never by that name.) This is the logic that it is better to believe in God and be wrong than to not believe in God and be wrong. In my mind, this is horrible logic as God will not be fooled by false faith.
   I also can’t believe that a loving God would hide the truth from his followers. There is no profit to be believed that in the time of judgment that someone would stand between me & the eternal reward and say “Good life, Shawn. But I am sorry, the proper answer was Quaker. No answer other than Quaker will be accepted. Here is your hand-basket, there is the slide downwards.”

   I will also support freedom of speech until I die, and will die for it, but can not abide extremists. I recently heard that a friend of mine has started drifting toward that end and am sorry for it. I expect that when he decides to express that point to me that I will have to end our friendship.
   I am also however glad that my atheist friends are also reasonable about not proselytizing to me in their direction. I would hate to point out that they were acting like extremist and foaming at the mouth.

   I will welcome any comments directly to me, rather than flooding Johnny’s blog with foolishness.

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9. Bob Balaban
   March 28, 2009 @ 7:05 am

   Nicely done. Hell is a “reality”? I don’t think so.

   JP Sartre: “Hell is other people.”
   Someone: “Hell is heaven, perverted.”

   (maybe it was Dr. Johnson? I googled it but couldn’t find the attribution. Good quote, anyway)

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10. roland.reddekop
    March 28, 2009 @ 9:02 am

    @Shawn re the existence of Christians who laugh at atheists:

    There’s of course different motivations for laughing. Not all are legitimate. “Mocking” generally implies without reasonable grounds, so that isn’t the sort of laughing I am talking about. Humor is often evoked by ludicrous situations. Absurdity the basis for humor. For example, here’s a definition of atheism that Christians would find amusing:

    Atheism (a definition):
    The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason whatsoever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.
    Makes perfect sense.

    Another humorous contrast is that the atheist claims God does not exist, but the bible reveals that its God’s claim that atheists don’t exist. One is a liar. See
    { Link }

    Not only does God not believe in atheists, but he laughs at their claims:
    { Link }

    So yes, Christians laugh at atheists, but its on the basis of the absurdity of their beliefs and its also consistent with what God has revealed about what is really going on in their hearts (internal unconscious suppression of what they know to be true).

    Hopefully I’ve responded appropriately in this forum…moving on…
    { Link }

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11. Greyhawk68
    March 29, 2009 @ 4:41 pm

    Hi all,

    Welcome Roland. Here’s my thing, I don’t think that people who create a site like needgod.com actually are trying to help people. To me, they are simply trying to buy themselves more points in order to get into heaven. More converts = More chance at redemption.

    For people to emblazon their minivan with such a slogan is just funny to me (whole window, not a bumper sticker), and my over the top reaction was an attempt to address it with humor. Humor that obviously will offend those responsible for a site like needgod.com, but will make heathens such as myself chuckle. Hell, there are passages that I re-read now and it still makes me laugh

    

    The point for me is, I do defend the right of everyone to say whatever they want to. To me, free speech is a huge piece of what I’m about. But that also means I can comment on things I find absurd as well.

    And even though Penn thinks that people SHOULD try saving others if they do believe that greatly, I disagree with that sentiment. I’m of the mind of live and let live. I don’t care what you do in your homs as long as it doesn’t harm others. These people at needgod.com were in no way like the nice man that gave Penn the bible. These people placed a quiz in front of me to see if I was “good enough.” Here’s the thing, if they truly believe, then they should know, that it’s not for them to judge.

    So I dunno, I like to point out absurdity with absurdity so that’s just me.

    -Grey

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12. JG
    March 30, 2009 @ 7:16 am

    Faith is about questions that may never be answered. Religion is about answers that can never be questioned.

    (Isn’t this one by Rocky Oliver?)

    Reply

13. Joshua
    April 4, 2009 @ 1:11 pm

    God bless you…

    Here are some of my thoughts, though my aim is to not fuel the fire and continue a word/logic war.

    ***Warning*** I have a needgod.com sticker on my truck. But I wasn’t always this way…

    Well I guess I’m a sort of fundie crank taking a step out into the firing squad here, but hopefully for someone, somewhere this will be food for thought-

    This blog/rant seems justified, maybe, but one sided. Here is my rant (plea)-

    What about the rest of the website? I can understand why folks would get to the part about being sent to hell and be turned off. I was one of them and that is some hard stuff to listen too. “Oh just more fanatics judging me, how dare they!?” What of the rest of the site though?

    You seem to dwell on the negative and vent about that (understandably), but there is more to it that you didn’t mention or maybe even get to. The part that shows God is loving, in that He made a way out? Follow the thought through to the full- God is loving, but God is just, as well (do a study on justice if you don’t understand justice). Because He is just, He has to sentence lawbreakers. Otherwise He is not good, and not worth calling God and not worth seeking after Him. He would be like one of us and he wouldn’t be God. How would it be for a judge on earth to let go a murderer, rapist, or pedophile? I would think, there would be a sense of injustice and even outrage in most people. Okay, those are “harsh” examples… murdering and looking with lust are different right? Seems so to us, but God looks at the heart- it’s intentions, motivations etc. Breaking the law is breaking the law, bottom line. We have all broken God’s law, myself included and in fact, I’m number one on that list.

    Because He is just He has to sentence. In this case, Hell- a place of punishment for transgressing His laws, and eternal separation from Him (no more chances to be redeemed if you find yourself there). However because He IS loving, He provides a way out. Jesus on the cross. Believe what you will about all that Jesus stuff, but that was the point. He wasn’t a nice guy, a teacher, the starter of a new religion, He didn’t want money or whatever else people claim Him to be. Jesus lived on earth, died on a cross, and more importantly rose, to take our sentence for us. A legal transaction took place there- the breaking of the law was satisfied AND we can go free. If, we except that substitution- More specifically, confess and repent of our sins (original language here indicates to turn away from doing them, change our mind about them, and if necessary plead with God for help not do those things that come so natural to us- whoever said what comes natural to us must make it okay anyway?) and then live a life for God rather then ourselves, obeying what He says, including reaching out to others. I am not meaning to preach here, although maybe a little, and I am trying not to use scriptures as that seems to be put people off. But at least consider and follow the logic the needgod.com site provides and go from there. Agree with it or not, it makes sense. You have to set groundwork showing someone’s need for the savior, otherwise, it won’t make sense to them and may be offensive as well. In this case, the test of good person or not. But follow to the end. It’s got the good news, the Gospel- and that is the whole point of the site. To share what God has done for all of us in providing a substitute through Christ. The “test” is a means to an end.

    You have to admit, holding yourself up to what may be God’s law and standard of righteousness(the 10 commandments), and seeing how you fall short is a little troubling, especially when you consider what the bible says is the just due for that (very hot swimming pool). This is a conscience/heart issue- what does your conscience say to you? Do you squirm a little at this uneasy “test” and try to wriggle and reason your way out? Or in this blog’s case, joke your way out? For me anyway, it bothers me a great deal to be held against those laws! I squirmed and wriggled and reasoned, and in the end there is nothing for me, not even logic makes me feel better about it. Maybe I can ignore it for awhile. I guess this could be called conviction that I’m feeling… Maybe not a bad thing? And if God is offering a “savior”, a way out, heck yes I will take it! What a gift…
    (and yes, this paragraph, and the whole comment really, is a means to an end in that I am trying to share the Good News with some people. I’m not hiding what I’m doing here, I do hope someone “will see the light”)

    Also, I agree with some other comments on here. I am one who has a needgod.com sticker on my truck, because I care. (And I’ve considered covering the whole window, just to get more attention and readers, so they might be saved as well, nothing more). It’s not about me winning points with God to get into heaven- if I truly believe Christ died on the cross for my sins, how can I add or take away from that? What an offense to Him for this free gift. He either did it all for me, or none of it and I’m still under the law and in my sins, a dead man walking and to hell with me. If I truly believe all this stuff, I want to share it with as many as I can, even if they just hate me more. It’s not about winning an argument or the like.

    Shouldn’t any of us have some obligation bubbling up inside to save the rest of the people on the sinking ship, if we perceived we had the life boat? This sticker displayed, for me at least, is a genuine concern for others in that I see the ship sinking but I know, or as you might correct me “I believe,” there is a life boat. I don’t care if anyone who sees my sticker ever comes to my church, nor do I want their money (just for the record). The right-minded and rightly motivated Christian should be caring about the soul of those around him when they reach out, nothing more. The whole reason I’m even a Christian, is someone took the time to talk with me about the things of God. And I never gave him money, although I did go to his church with him for awhile! :oP

    Unfortunately there are plenty of examples out there of those coming in the name of Christ, dragging it through the mud because of what they do or say elsewhere. Of course, Jesus Himself, said not everyone who says “Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. Away from Me, I never knew you!” And “you will know a tree by it’s fruits” (Sorry, two Bible verses there!)

    I don’t want anyone to wind up in hell is the motivation behind why I even bother to comment on this blog as I know most readers, if not even all, will roll their eyes, call me names, curse God, curse me, and so on. Owell, I still care enough- and God has created that in me. I didn’t use to care. And I don’t now because I am so awesome or something. He put it there. I was a dead man inside, full of sin and incapable of looking beyond myself. I have life inside now. I was an atheist probably, but definitely an agnostic for sure, and out for no one else but me. I gave this audio message a shot, and some 8 years later here I am conversing with others about God- { Link }
    If this link won’t open, search for “Hell’s Best Kept Secret” by Ray Comfort
    Give it a shot…

    In the end, sorry if the needgod website and the crazies that display the sticker offends, but be offended, rant/rave/blog and consider ALL of what it says. Eternity is a very long time for any of us to be wrong. Seek God while He may still be found. I truly hope to see you in heaven with the King one day…

    Signed, “another unbeliever gone crazy- fundie not claiming to have all the answers, but maybe some”, and your friend-
    Joshua

    PS- I surfed on to this site while trying to find another needgod.com sticker. Irony..

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14. Jerry Shelley
    April 21, 2009 @ 4:30 pm

    Re Joshua’s comment …

    “I truly hope to see you in heaven with the King one day…”

    – what’s Elvis got to do with it?!

    Reply